JOHN BISSET INTERVIEW

JOHN BISSET

John pictured with Bon Scott.

Keyboard extroidinnaire of Australian progressive Rock band FRATERNITY from 1970-1973. Fraternity was led by frontman Bon Scott at the time. John gives his in depth outlook on his times with Fraternity, with Bon, and what he's been up to over the years. Thanks again John for the great interview!

Can you tell me a little about the band "the Clefs"?

I went to Sydney from New Zealand with a Motown-style band called 'The Action' in 1967. During a stint as resident band at the 'Hawaiian Eye' night-club, the Action broke up. I turned up for work one night and none of the others were there. The club's manager informed me that they had decided to form another band that didn't include me. I had been jamming occasionally with the Clefs who were resident band at the 'Whisky A-Go-Go' in Kings Cross. The Clefs offered me a gig on keyboards - their keyboard player wanted to leave. (He went on to become a founder member of 'Tully', who became very big in the acid-rock scene of the time.)

when was the original band formed? and who were the members and what did they play? You played keyboards, correct?

Yes - I played Hammond organ with the indispensable 'Leslie' rotary speaker. I don't know when the original Clefs were formed. Barrie McAskill was the lead singer and band leader. He came from Adelaide. I suspect the Clefs originally came from there. They had been resident at the Whisky for some time and had gone through many line-up changes by the time I came along. I think other members of Tully had also spent time with the Clefs. At the time I joined, Barrie was lead vocalist. A lady called Inez Amaya did some lead and backing vocals. Inez had some sort of independent arrangement - she never toured or recorded with us. She babysat for me on at least one occasion. (My son Brent was an ankle-biter at the time. He is now 33 and a 'Program Manager' at Microsoft in Seattle.) The other three were Bruce Howe on bass, Mick Jurd on guitar and Tony Beutel on drums. Bruce also came from Adelaide, Tony came from Queensland and Mick was from Glebe in Sydney. Bruce (later dubbed 'The Dingo') was to become my mentor and friend for many years. He was extremely bright and very good at dealing with people. Mick was by far the most accomplished musician and had played jazz guitar previously. His jazz influence can be heard on the title track 'Empty Monkey' which he wrote and arranged. I think the track still stands up and is by far my favourite track on the album. Tony was a staunch Queenslander, Carlton (VFL) supporter and bluesman. The Clefs continued as resident band at the Whisky for a year or so then we cut the umbilical cord and went on the road.

You released one album as "the clefs"? Was it put out independently, or on a label? >what sort of recognition did you receive at the time?

The album was called 'Empty Monkey' and was released on the Sweet Peach label and distributed by Phonogram. The producer was Jimmy Stewart and the engineer was Spencer Lee. It was recorded at United Sound Studios in Sydney. Doug Ashdown and Jimmy Stewart wrote at least one of the songs - they also wrote some of the songs on the first Fraternity album. Doug was a respected singer/songwriter in a similar mould to Bob Dylan. The title came from them as well. I gather it was a reference to the saying 'a monkey on your back' - an empty one being less of a load. The album received little or no attention from the Australian rock press and public as far as I recall.

When did the band change its name from The Clefs to Fraternity?

It was not a case of the band changing its name. In a somewhat cruel and regrettable fashion (common in the rock scene) we conspired together and abandoned Barrie to form another band. The same had been done to me by the other Action members so I guess I felt justified somehow. Barrie re-surfaced with another Clefs line-up soon after. We were on a collective ego-trip and keen to follow Tully into the avante garde acid-rock scene of the time. With the benefit of hindsight I can see that that scene was just as big a wank as the night-club scene but 'hindsight is a wonderful thing'. The split happened during a Clefs's Melbourne tour of duty. We moved back to Sydney and rented a house in Sydney's Eastern suburbs. I think the name 'Fraternity' was Mick's suggestion. It was 'safe' yet had something of an acid subculture connotation as well.

who were your biggest influences(personally), how about Fraternity as a whole- who was Fraternity's biggest inspiration musically?

I was a John Lennon-style rhythm guitarist and vocalist who took up keyboards when it became clear that the writing was on the wall for rhythm guitarists. At the time of the Clefs I was firmly under the spell of Mark Stein (I hope I got his name right) of Vanilla Fudge. I loved Fudge's grandiose blending of classical melodies with rock and their dynamic mix of intensity and emptiness. I also loved the Hammond/Leslie sound - and still do. Pre-Bon Fraternity were very much into Vanilla Fudge, Deep Purple and The Nice. 'Shotgun' on the Clefs album is a cover of the Fudge version. We were all blown away by Joe Cocker's 'With a Little Help From My Friends' ( The Clefs performed an emotionally 'over-the-top' rendition of it on Australian TV.) During a season at a club in Newcastle we discovered the 'Music From Big Pink' album by 'the Band'. The Band were our major influence for the next couple of years. I wrote the Fraternity single 'If You Got It' at the height of our 'Band' era.

How did Bon Scott become the singer of the band?

Bruce Howe brought Bon on board. Bruce must have approached Bon when we were in Melbourne. I had seen Bon in the 'Valentines' but it had never occurred to me that he was frustrated with the pop scene and wanted to get into heavier stuff. Although the pop bands of the time (like The Valentines and Zoot) were probably better off than us in terms of fans, finance and exposure, I felt comfortably superior to them because we weren't pandering to the needs of a bunch of teenyboppers.  I first met Bon at Fraternity's Sydney house. I went along with his recruitment with a little scepticism at first but was soon won over by his personality and talent. The first song I remember him singing at a gig was 'Take Me For a Little While' - a Vanilla Fudge classic. He did it great. I wish it was on record. We went on to become good friends and drinking buddies.

What were the line-up changes (that you recall) in your time with Fraternity?

After the initial break from Barrie, Bon was the first addition. We fell out with Tony after a few months and he left after an argument. We recruited an Adelaide drummer that had jammed with us - John Freeman. A young Adelaide millionaire, Hamish Henry, was very supportive of local talent and he took us under his wing. We moved base to Adelaide and much better accommodations provided by Hamish. Our roadies, Bob and Rob, got a mini greyhound bus to play with. We even took it to England. A harmonica player used to jam with us regularly at our Sydney gigs - 'Uncle' John Ayers. Bruce eventually brought him on board as a permanent member. Bruce also bought guitarist and keyboardist Sam See on board before we went to England. I felt threatened by his recruitment and gave notice that I wasn't going to England with the band. Bruce talked me out of it one night when I was particularly 'upstairs' (Fraternity-speak for being out of it on acid or the like) I was the next change. I left after about a year in England. Things were really bad. 17 people (band, roadies, road manager and partners) in one house in Finchley. Little work, uninspired rehearsals. We were in the wrong country at the wrong time. It came to a head when Sam See (who didn't like me and thought I was crazy) tried to get the band to vote on which one of us should stay. I was too insecure to put my fate in the hands of a vote, so I left. When I got sacked after a short, inauspicious stint with Mungo Jerry, I left the rock scene and eventually became a computer programmer. I stayed on in London in that capacity until 1981 (except for a 12 month contract in Saudi Arabia in 1978.) . Sam also left soon after and 'Fang' was born. I didn't have much contact with the guys after I left but I gather that Fang was a mean and lean version of Fraternity - designed to appeal more to the rock audiences of the time. Fang packed it in and returned to Australia about late 1973. I only know a little about what went on there. Bon had a serious motorbike accident that nearly killed him. Soon after the accident he joined AC/DC. The first I knew of his becoming famous was during a programming contract I was on in Saudi Arabia. I saw Bon's face on the cover of a AC/DC tape cassette in a soukh in Riyadh in 1978. The rest formed Fraternity Mark 2 with Jimmy Barnes on vocals and his half-brother John Swann on drums. Amazing line-up.

what was it like recording in the studio with Fraternity? How long did it generally take the band to write and record an album?

We were an amazingly self-indulgent and lazy lot. It is a wonder we ever made any albums at all. Recording in the studio was just an extension of our everyday life. Priority number one was always 'getting out of it' on whatever was available. Booze was a staple. We were all heavy drinkers. Some handled it better than others. Being pissed was called 'downstairs' in Fraternity-speak. Cheap South Australian brandy was popular, especially on the road. Weed was also ever-present. In the early Clefs days we used a lot of speed but fortunately that didn't last. Acid, mescaline and magic mushrooms were also on the menu when they were around. Anything to avoid being 'straight'. 'If You Got It' had an interesting history. I wrote the lyrics after an extraordinary acid trip at a NSW beach. I felt I had found something and tried to express it after getting some ideas from Aldous Huxley & co. I also worked out the melody and arrangement prior to presenting it to the band at the house in the Adelaide Hills. They liked it so we rehearsed it at the house. The whole band was on magic mushrooms that day. 'Twas the season for gathering mushrooms. We played it live for some time before recording it the next time we were in the studio. (in Melbourne as I recall) Some pieces were put together in the studio. Unfortunately we never used our stage experience to determine what we did in the studio. We were like two bands - a studio one and a stage one. The stage band rocked - it had to rock to survive. In the studio we didn't rock. We did a lot of arty, experimental, grandiose and ponderous stuff that we hardly ever (in some cases never) played on stage. There were a few exceptions but generally speaking, we would have made much better albums by sticking a mike in front of the stage on a good night. I am being a bit hard on us I suppose. We were inexperienced and trying to do original stuff - quite groundbreaking in Australia at the time. We didn't spend a lot of time in the studio. It was too expensive. As far as I remember the albums were cut in a few days.

Who did most of the songwriting? or was it an entire group effort?

I contributed a song to the Clefs album ('Lisa') and Mick wrote two instrumentals - 'Empty Monkey' and 'Relief From a Lighted Doorway'. The whole band contributed to the original arrangements of 'You Can't Do That' and 'Shake and Finger Pop'.

Doug Ashdown and Jimmy Stewart wrote 'Who Is It That Shall Come One Day'. 'Shotgun' was a cover of the Vanilla Fudge version and 'The Hunter' was a fairly standard blues number. Fraternity's songs tended to be sourced from the various living abodes;

Mick (who usually lived separately with his wife Carol) was the main contributor for 'Raglan's Folly', 'You Have a God' and 'Grand Canyon Suites'.

I also lived separately with my wife and son and wrote 'Livestock' (which was intended as a down-under pisstake of Woodstock) and 'If You Got It' .

I co-wrote 'Cool Spot/Annabelle' with Mick while on the road in Melbourne.

Bruce, Bon, Sam and Uncle lived in the same place. I think Bruce and Sam were the main contributors to 'Sommerville', demonstrating the 'Band' influence with references to the US civil war. Bruce was genuinely deeply interested in US history.

I think Bon contributed to 'Getting Off' and 'Jupiter's Landscape' which was inspired by a large piece of modern art on the wall at the Sydney house. It was 3-dimensional with a red raised relief which looked like an alien landscape. (It was also close to the spotting element on the stove).

Sam and possibly Bruce and Bon were the major contributors to 'Welfare Boogie'. 'Hemming's Farm' was mainly Sam's (it includes references to his girlfriend, Mick's dog Francie and my dog Clutch, who was featured on the back cover of 'Flaming Galah').

'The Race' and 'Why Did It Have To Be Me?' were written by Doug Ashdown and Jimmy Stewart.

'Question' was a cover of a Moody Blues song.

'The Shape I'm In' is a cover of a Band song.

'Seasons of Change' was our version of a Black Feather original written by John Robinson and Neal Johns. Our version went to number one in South Australia. Black Feather's was a hit in NSW and Victoria.

what was the typical Fraternity live show like?

It depended on the crowd to a large extent. If the crowd rocked, we rocked. Needless to say we were often booked in gigs which were totally unsuited to the Fraternity culture. Mick got into trouble at a teenybopper gig in Melbourne by saying 'bullshit' during his preamble to 'Sydney Cold Smorgasbord' - a pisstake of a popular soul number which I can't remember the name of. (The word 'salad' or 'stew' was in the title). He would introduce each member of the band and that member would commence playing. Mick's semi-drunken monologue's were hilarious to us and the few people who were onto him. We got a great reception at 'Berties' the first time we played there with Bon. Berties was the trendiest Melbourne club of the time. We opened with 'Chest Fever', a Band song with a great organ introduction that allowed me to star madly for a while. I can't remember the rest of the numbers we did though 'If You Got It', 'The Shape I'm In' and 'Seasons of Change' would have been among them. Bon's recorder introduction to 'Seasons of Change' always got a great reception. Several of the band, including myself, had dropped some mescaline after the first gig for the night. We used to do three one-hour spots a night in Melbourne on the weekends. Once the mescaline was tempered with some wine and weed, we were ready to blow away any audience. Berties was the last gig for the night, and the best. We all helped hump the gear on such nights. It is interesting to note that we managed to drive to each gig, unload the gear, perform, reload the gear - all while we were on various mind-altering substances. Mick used to call the gear-humping procession of people 'the snake'.

did Fraternity every perform any cover songs? during rehearsals or otherwise?

We did covers of a lot of Band songs on stage. We covered the Moody Blues' 'Question' on record but rarely, if ever, played it live. 'Seasons of Change' was a cover though Black Feather didn't release their version as a single until after our version was a hit in South Australia.

what was it like touring throughout Australia in the early 70's with Fraternity?

It was a party. We partied at home, on the road and at gigs. We drove vast distances leaving a trail of empty Foster's cans and brandy bottles in our wake. We once drove the 1000 miles from Sydney to Adelaide in 14 hours. I was with Mick in his Ford Falcon GT on that occasion. He raced a Mazda rotary most of the way. On another occasion I was driving Bruce's Valiant on a Sydney to Melbourne trip. My international licence had expired and I was arrested and jailed in a small town, Holbrook I think it was. I spent the afternoon in an outside cell with a bucket for a toilet, awaiting my trial by kangaroo court. I was found guilty. The judge asked how much I had on me and then fined me that much. We travelled from Adelaide to Perth by train once to do a series of gigs. The train trip took two days and a night. Some of us dropped some windowpane acid on departure from Adelaide. Later in the train's bar we were all accosted by a bloke who passed into Fraternity mythology as 'Vietnam Vic'. He had just returned from duty in Vietnam which according to him, included machine gunning women and children. He was pathologically drunk - as far 'downstairs' as anyone I have ever seen. He was squinty and vicious and personally confronted nearly all of us with aggressive questioning. He confronted Uncle and asked what kind of trips we had on LSD. (Uncle looked like Mahatma Ghandi so he was a sure bet to have dropped acid). When Uncle responded with 'train trips' we all cracked up - risking instant death by Vic who proclaimed that he could kill everyone in the bar in 10 seconds. He probably could have. He confronted Bruce and I with 'What's your scene?'. Bruce responded with 'We're just trying to have a good time' which about summed up Fraternity. We did a tour of South Australia's smaller towns not long before going to England. We would all head for the nearest pub on arrival at a new town. We initially copped a lot of 'log-haired poofdahs' type comments but we usually won the locals over after downing copious quantities of the local brew and cleaning them up at pool. I got so pissed at one gig I was arm-wrestling with members of the audience in between numbers. Bon won over the kids at one town by jumping off a tower on a pier into a mass of jellyfish that had invaded the surrounding water.

Do you remember the performance on Live TV that was done by Fraternity? how did that go?

I don't remember a live TV performance. Channel 9 (I think) did a Fraternity documentary which included footage in the recording studio and at the Adelaide Hills property (Hemmings Farm). Bon was filmed on his motorbike during that session. We performed at a concert with a symphony orchestra in Adelaide but I don't think it was televised. The 'Battle of the Sounds' final in 1971 may have been televised. We won that. The first prize helped finance our trip to England. We supported 'Deep Purple' and 'Free' at a concert in Adelaide. We also supported 'Black Sabbath' at an outdoor festival near Adelaide. There may have been television cameras there. I don't remember. I remember jamming at a pub with some of the Black Sabbath guys after the gig.

Did Fraternity record any other "promotional videos" other than for "Seasons of change"?

I don't remember a promotional video for 'Seasons of Change'. It may have been lifted from the Channel 9 documentary studio footage.

Yes, actually, the "Fraternity TV special", where the "seasons of change" clip must have been pulled from…

I don't have a copy of the Fraternity documentary which was aired on South Australian TV. I think it must still exist somewhere because the odd clip from it turns up. I asked Bruce Howe to try and get me a copy last time I spoke to him (maybe 5 years ago) but he was not very together at the time and never got back to me. The Adelaide TV channel (9 I think) should have it in their archives.

Where there any other Fraternity songs that remained unreleased on album?

'Sydney Cold Smorgasbord' was never recorded. Although 'Chest Fever' was a cover of a Band song, we should have recorded it. It was a repertoire regular for a long time. I think it was recorded during the TV documentary studio session but probably hasn't been among the re-releases because Bon didn't sing it. Bruce and I did. I can't think of any others.

When Fraternity went to England to tour over there, what was the general outlook on the bands future at the beginning of the tour?

The general outlook was initially optimistic. We were confident that we would make our mark. We got brought down to earth very quickly. We had a lot to learn, particularly in the area of PA systems. We had a big PA by Australian standards of the time but it was pitifully inadequate compared to the bands we supported. Status Quo blew us way at our first support gig. We soon improved our PA but still had problems with clear sound reproduction. With seven members we tended to become a 'wall of sound' with no separation and dynamics. We also had material and direction problems. We had been veering toward country rock for some time but really had no clear identity. Our originals were not simple and powerful enough. Bon later told me how relieved he was with AC/DCs approach to originals. Unfortunately Fraternity never mastered that art.

Was this the time that Fraternity decided to change the band name to Fang? or was that later? why the band name change?

I was out of the band when they changed the name to Fang. I think the name change signalled a new simplicity and power in their material but it was perhaps too little too late.

what went wrong with that tour? how did the English crowd react to the band?

We went over quite well at our English gigs. The Poms were fascinated and somewhat sympathatic toward us I think. There was a small core of Londoners who befriended us and attended our gigs and plied us with booze and drugs. We went over much better in Germany. Bon won the audiences over by trying to announce songs in German. They loved to rock there and we responded accordingly. We also played that table-soccer with the Germans. It was more popular than pool over there.

what was the final downfall that caused the band to break up for good?

I don't know what happened after I left. I think the problems of identity and material, and the resulting lack of success and money, were probably the main underlying cause.

do you recall supporting the U.K. band Geordie at that time? what can you recollect about them?

I don't recall that gig. It may have been after my departure.

Didn't Fraternity get back together again after the break-up with another singer and drummer?

Yes - back in Adelaide. I was still in London at the time. They were called Fraternity Mark 2 and featured Jimmy Barnes on vocals and John Swann on drums. Jimmy and his later band 'Cold Chisel' are now living legends in Australia and John also made a name for himself with 'Swannee' and 'The Party Boys' with Kevin Borich.

what is your most memorable moment of Bon Scott?

I was described in Clinton Walker's book as a 'troubled' person. I was certainly pretty screwed-up in those days. I was depressed and paranoid most of the time switching to boisterous and aggressive when drunk. I fitted the description of a full-blown 'Jekyll and Hyde' alcoholic personality which I now know that I was. The 'real me' was virtually unreachable but a few people succeeded over the years. Bon was one of them. Bon and I scored some acid in Adelaide once, loaded his trail bike on the back of my ute and drove to a beach beyond the Adelaide Hills. I was planning to sit in acid-induced meditation on the beach but Bon would have none of it. He insisted that I get on the back of his trail bike. He then roared off down the beach. I was expecting him to slow down as we approached a broad tidal stream that was running across the beach. He sped up. The water hit me like a fire hose. Just beyond the tidal stream the beach gave way to huge sand dunes that steeply rose up about 30 feet above the beach. He didn't slow down - just rode straight into them. The bike stopped instantly, half-buried in the side of the sand dune, and the two of us were thrown 10 or fifteen feet through the air. I was soaked to the skin and covered in sand but seemingly in one piece. I looked up and saw Bon sitting further up the sand dune, grinning at me from ear to ear. I tried to be angry but couldn't help but see the funny side of it. The whole thing was a set up - a practical joke. Bon said "I knew you would either hit me or laugh but I was sure there was a normal, happy bloke in there somewhere". I'm glad he did it and I'm glad I laughed.

What Fraternity album is your favorite? Livestock or Flaming galah?

I don't have a favourite album really. There are a few tracks on both of them that I like.

what would you say is your favorite Fraternity song and why?

I like 'Seasons of Change' the most I think. It is an excellent song , Bon sings it well and the arrangement is well-suited to the Fraternity line-up.

what do you think of the various Fraternity re-releases and compilations that have been surfacing over the past few years or so on CD?

A friend of mine first brought them to my attention in the late 80s. The "Bon Scott - Seasons of Change 1968-72" album (on vinyl) appeared in a local record shop. I rushed out and bought it. I had been starved of even the teensiest bit of fame for many years. Now I had proof that it all really happened! (I hadn't kept any of the original albums myself.) My sister discovered the "Bon Scott & Fraternity - Complete Sessions 1971-72" cd in a catalogue in one of her women's magazines. She ordered a copy for us both. I think they are great. I have even renewed my membership of APRA and have since received a humble (though welcome) royalty cheque for 'If You Got It'.

Did you keep in touch with Bon over the years after he had joined AC/DC?

Not a lot. I was living in London and occasionally caught a glimpse of him in the music press or on the record shelves. I remember seeing a shot of Angus 'mooning' an audience in England when they were on their 'long way to the top'. I was on contract in Saudi Arabia in 1978 and could afford to fly around the world whenever I had some leave. On one such journey I flew to New Zealand and Adelaide to catch up with family and friends. By sheer coincidence, Bon was also in Adelaide for a few days at the same time. Bon, Bruce, Uncle and I went nightclubbing then crashed at Uncle's place. I remember us singing a hungover rendition of 'House of the Rising Run' the next morning. My last job in London was in the city with Shell from 1979-81. My ex-wife Cheryl (who had known Bon for as long as I had) told me that AC/DC were in town for a concert at the Hammersmith Odeon. I somehow reached their management office and left a message for Bon. He rang me at work later and said he would leave 5 free tickets at the door if we wanted to attend the concert. I went with a bunch of my workmates. AC/DC hadn't quite made mega-stardom at the time but they had a good crowd and turned on an amazing performance. I went around the back of the theatre after the show in the hope of having a word with Bon. He was chatting with someone at a back doorway. He saw me and waved me in. I had a beer with him in the band room and was introduced to Angus. Bon said of Angus's stage antics that 'it was mainly a matter of keeping out of his way.' After a few minutes they were whisked off by their tour manager into a limousine which drove off into the night. The next time Cheryl called me about Bon was to inform me of his death.

Do you ever speak with any of the other Fraternity members, or know what they might be doing nowadays?

I saw a lot of John Freeman and Uncle when I first returned to Sydney in 1981. They both helped me find my feet for the first few months. I later saw Uncle and Bruce in 'Mickey Finn' when they played in Sydney. Since returning to New Zealand in 1983 I have had occasional telephone contact with Bruce but nothing for several years now. The last time I spoke to him he told me that Mick had died, of cancer I think. Bruce was touring with an Aerosmith tribute band at the time but God only knows what he is doing now.

what are you up to these days?

I am 'in between jobs' as they say. I am trying to set up shop from home with a few pet projects. I live in a suburb of Hamilton, New Zealand with two dogs, Bonus and Rosie. I never fitted in well as a '9 to 5 ' office worker so I am fairly happy to be doing stuff at home. I returned to New Zealand in 1983 after suffering a severe psychotic breakdown in Sydney during my final attempt to make the rock big time with a band called Diamond Cutter. I quit drinking alcohol in 1984 and haven't had any since. I recently taught myself Visual Basic (with the help of several 'Dummies' books) and am developing a punting system for gallops races in New Zealand. I also do a bit of web development and the like for a friend who has a small export business. I rediscovered my love of electric guitar in the late eighties and learnt how to play electric blues. I was initially inspired by Eric Clapton. He is still among my favourites who also include Peter Green, The Kings (BB, Freddy, Albert), Buddy Guy, Jimi Hendrix, Albert Collins, Robert Cray and SRV. I genuinely rate Angus Young as a blues guitarist and reckon that he should put out a blues album. His playing is very much rooted in the blues (in my opinion) and at times is reminiscent of Peter Green in his younger days. (have a listen to 'Drifting' on 'The Original Fleetwood Mac' album.) Angus's solo on 'Ride On' is superb. I don't get to play very often but really enjoy it when I do. I have an old Gibson L6S guitar and a small Marshall amp.